Saturday, May 31, 2008

Can infants lie?

There are a number of teachers and writers who say that infants can "lie" or be manipulative by crying when they aren't hungry, wet, or hurt. I remember reading somewhere that if a baby cried, and then stopped crying when you came into the room, they were being manipulative.

Personally, I was always touched and pleased when my baby stopped crying when she saw me coming (or heard me say I was coming) because, to me, that communicated that she loved and trusted me so much that she had complete confidence I would be able to take care of whatever her need was.

"Oh, Mommy is here! Everything will be all better now."

That, or she just wanted me.

I just can't imagine taking offense at the fact that my child finds comfort in my presence.

The thing is, babies can only communicate by crying. And they don't necessarily know why they are uncomfortable or how to fix it. They don't know if that pain in their tummy is hunger or gas or loneliness. They just know something's not right, and so they cry.

When someone thinks a baby is lying or manipulating because they are crying "just" because they want a parent nearby or want to be held, I wonder: It's a baby. It wants you. How do you expect it to communicate that, by sending you a telegram? If there's some unwritten rule that only "urgent needs" are allowed to be communicated by crying, then you'd better install a telegraph machine in the crib and teach the baby Morse Code so they can tell you if they're cold or bored or lonely, or the light from the window is glaring in their eyes, or whatever. But before you can do that, you have to teach them how to figure out why they're uncomfortable and what exactly will fix it.

Seriously, the idea that babies can lie presupposes that they know exactly why they're uncomfortable, have figured out how to fix it, guess that you won't think it is important enough to fix, know exactly what you WILL think is important enough to fix, know how to communicate differently for each of these things, and so calculate mentally the exact frequency and intensity of crying to try to make you think they are hungry, when they know that really they are lonely and just want to be held--but if they only tell you that they want to be held, you might not do it. Oh, and they also must understand that they can communicate something specific to you, and that a particular cry on their part will bring about a particular response on your part that would be different from your response to a different cry. And then figure out which cry to emit. And have the muscle tone, voice modulation and air control to make the sound come out exactly the way they planned.

So they think ahead and scheme to try to make you think they are hurt or hungry by crying at a particular megahertz and frequency to communicate something they know is not true to get you to do something specific that they have in mind.

The idea that babies can actually lie presupposes an understanding of truth and fiction, cause and effect, object permanence, communication, predicting another's actions, calculating exactly what stimulus will be likely to give rise to a particular response, and a number of other quite advanced reasoning and interpersonal skills.

If the baby actually had the capability to do that, they probably could send you a telegram.

I do think that once they're a little older, they are experimenting with and beginning to learn about things like cause and effect and object permanence. ("I don't see Mommy. If I cry, will she appear from somewhere, or is she gone forever??")

But at the age when they still don't even understand that their own hands are attached to their arms, I think the biggest thing they learn from our response to their crying is that they're not alone in the world. When they need something, they will be cared for and when they call, someone will answer.* And that's foundational to all sorts of other truths and skills in life. To me, that concept is even foundational to my faith.



*Obviously there are times when a parent can't always answer immediately.

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13 Comments:

Blogger Rev Dr Mom said...

Before I was a priest I was a developmental psychologist, and I don't believe that babies lie or intentionally manipulate their caregivers, for many of the reasons you give.

I DO believe that learning takes place...babies learn from their experience (some would call this conditioning) that if they cry they get attention -- but that is not manipulative, nor does it imply that they are "faking it". And they learn that when Mom or Dad or whoever appears the attention is imminent, so they stop crying. It's very adaptive, really.

It's important for babies to learn that their caregivers are loving and reliable...that's how attachment bonds form and strengthen. I'm always bothered by the notion that babies are "manipulating" and we should ignore their cries. I'm not a big fan of cry-it-out for that reason.

7:09 PM  
Blogger Liz Miller said...

What you both said.

7:15 PM  
Blogger Miranda said...

I've always approached my relationships with my children from a position of trust. How I reacted when they were infants would set the stage for how well they could trust me when they were older.

Not saying I'm perfect by any means but all three of my children feel like they can trust me to look after their needs and respect their autonomy.

7:58 PM  
Blogger MarkC said...

I agree that babies don't intentionally lie. That seems blatantly obvious to me. Your long explanation was straightforward (and maybe a bit snarky). Was there some other online discussion that you were responding to? If so, I'd be interested to read it, if you could provide a link.

Babies aren't liars... but they are utterly selfish. This isn't a bad thing, in babies. It's all they possibly could be. It's certainly not something to punish them for, or get angry at them about.

But, it can relieve some guilt from an over-stressed parent to realize that their crying infant, rather than necessarily expressing a need that requires immediate (or even imminent) attention, is possibly just expressing their innate selfishness.

As a parent to my infants, I was careful to make sure their needs were met, and I tried to never get angry at them or punish them for crying... but if they were safe and sufficiently provided for, I often left them to cry.

I'm not sure if that quite fits the "cry-it-out" camp mold or not. I can't say that there's anything in what you wrote, PK, that I disagree with. If I read what you were responding to, I might respond exactly the same way. But, for the sake of discussion, I thought I'd toss in my slightly-less-strident viewpoint. :)

Mark

8:36 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Boy, I've missed reading your comments, Mark. :) They are always so lucid. Actually, everyone has made very good points.

IIRC, the cry-it-out method is associated with imposing significant structure or discipline upon the infant. e.g. the infant is made to adapt to an adult eating or sleeping schedule versus the adult adapting more to the infant.

Clearly, there is a balance. Where that balance lies may be the underlying point of contention.

I'm wondering if PK's "Babywise?" post and comment may be the basis for this post?

Kevin

11:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Babies need to be responded to and nurtured, not ignored. Although there are times when they may need to cry it out, but only for a reasonable amount of time.

I don't think babies lie or manipulate. I think there is a lot of damaging and wrong info in Babywise.

3:20 PM  
Blogger MarkC said...

In case my previous comment caused confusion, let me correct something.

Where I referred to "selfish" or "selfishness", please replace that with "self-focused" and "self-focusedness", and add emphasis to my statement that this is not a bad thing for a baby, but quite natural.

I was not intending to imply that babies, by being focused on themselves and their needs, were somehow exhibiting a "bad" trait, but I realize that the word "selfishness" carries that connotation.

Sorry if that caused any confusion...

Mark

12:19 PM  
Blogger purple_kangaroo said...

Rev Dr Mom, yes . . . which would be why babies in third-world orphanages eventually stop crying. They've learned that nobody will come.

Liz, thanks

Miranda, yes . . . I liked how you put that: "How I reacted when they were infants would set the stage for how well they could trust me when they were older."

I noticed that even with our babies, they cried less and were more content (and went through more stages of communication before escalating to crying) when we were consistently more responsive to their cries, than they were when we let them cry more.

Markc, I second Kevin's comment that I'm glad to have you posting comments!

I think I would disagree with your use of the term "selfish" to describe babies.

Selfishness involves an understanding of the self as distinct from others, and an excessive or undue concern for one's own benefit at the expense of others.

I think the term "egocentric" may be more accurate. It carries the connotation of simply being unaware of or unable to differentiate the needs of others--being self-focused without negative intent toward others.

I think what you were trying to say is that just because a baby acts like its need is the most important thing in the world, that doesn't necessarily mean that it actually is? That it may sometimes be OK to prioritize other needs over it?

If that's what you meant, then I think I mostly agree (although we would probably prioritize differently) . . . but I think there's real danger in assuming that we know a baby doesn't actually have a need, or that the need isn't important, just because we can't immediately figure out what that need is. I don't think babies cry for no reason.

I'll reply to some of your other thoughts and questions in a new post.

Kevin, to some extent, yes . . . I think it's true that the goal is to have babies adapt to a more structured schedule.

But how many adults eat only every 6 hours for no more than 30 minutes, and never snack or drink so much as a sip of water between meals? How many sleep for exactly a particular number of hours at a particular time every night? Not many, I would wager.

On the other hand, I do think there can be some value in a loosely-structured routine. Especially one that's more centered around an order of doing things (i.e. eat, then try to keep the baby awake for a while, then let them sleep) than a strict time-based schedule.

And, when my kids were getting into constant-snacking mode with their reflux, I found it helped them (as well as my sanity) to try to get them to go at least an hour between feedings.

But trying to schedule feedings, especially for breastfeeding children, is all too often a recipe for an insufficient milk supply and failure to thrive.

Babywise has the baby down to 4 to 6 feedings per day by 3 months of age--long before they're even ready to start solids.

There's a huge difference between the Babywise low-end recommendation of 4 feedings and the AAP-recommended 8-12 feedings per day. Since both a mother's milk storage capacity and the size of the baby's stomach limit the amount of each feeding, this means a baby is taking in much less milk than the AAP recommends if the mother follows Babywise recommendations.

This review of Babywise notes, "A recent study published in Pediatrics showed babies between one and six months old took an average of 11 feedings a day, plus or minus 3 feedings and the number of feedings did not change with age."

Grandmac, I agree with you. I do think there are some babies and/or some times when babies do need to cry, and that parents can be sensitive to that.

I loved Moxie's theory about there being at least two different kinds of babies: those who release tension by crying, and those who increase tension by crying.

Some kids just need to fuss a bit before falling asleep, and will do that even if they're being held. Others will work themselves into a frenzy if left to cry.

All in all, I think the bottom line comes down to figuring out the baby's needs and what works for the family--while, hopefully, treating the needs and desires of everyone in the family with value and respect.

1:03 PM  
Blogger purple_kangaroo said...

Markc, looks like we were posting at the same time. :)

1:03 PM  
Blogger MarkC said...

And it looks to me like we agree. Sorry again for my poor choice of word.

I think there's real danger in assuming that we know a baby doesn't actually have a need, or that the need isn't important, just because we can't immediately figure out what that need is. I don't think babies cry for no reason.

I agree that babies don't cry for no reason.

Neither do I recommend assuming (that's the important word) that the baby doesn't have an actual need.

However, for the sanity of the parent, I think it is often advisable to accept the fact that you are not going to be able to meet (or even figure out) each of your baby's needs. When my baby was crying, and I had done my reasonable best to determine what the baby's problem was and could't find a solution, I tried to give myself permission to let the baby cry without feeling guilty.

I'm not attempting to put myself in anybody else's camp here, or to defend any other viewpoint... just thinking through how I tried to deal with my own kids.

Mark

1:18 PM  
Blogger purple_kangaroo said...

Yes, I think we basically agree. I think, though, that's from a basis of trying to balance the needs of everyone in the family rather than deeming the baby's needs unimportant or thinking that not meeting their needs right away will somehow train them to be less selfish.

There are a number of teachers and writers who actually believe that infants are capable of rebellion and sinful selfishness, and that by allowing them to cry "unecessarily", a parent is training them to become some kind of little sociopath. That's very different from the idea you are communicating, I think.

1:23 PM  
Blogger MarkC said...

Yes, it is, you are correct. :)

Mark

1:27 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

PK,

PK wrote: "Kevin, to some extent, yes . . . I think it's true that the goal is to have babies adapt to a more structured schedule."

Oy, I think I must have miscommunicated pretty badly. I agree with you and I'm sorry if I've added to the confusion!

I just meant to suggest that, from my perspective, the underlying question does not seem to be whether infants can lie (they can't; your post is practically a proof) or even whether letting the baby "cry-it-out" is good or bad, because that would seem to depend upon the situation.

The question seems to be what you touched on in your last comment: will imposing greater discipline at the infant stage really significantly impact future selfishness and self-reliance? Is it worth the emotional (et al.) cost to the infant and parents?

I tend to think the answer is no to both, though I am notably out of my depth here, not having children yet.

Still, I find this topic interesting because my grandmother, at her doctor's instruction and against her better judgement and to her own sorrow, apparently regulated my mom's schedule in similar fashion, for which I think my mom attributes subtle emotional issues.

Suffice it to say, my mom did not carry forward that practice.

Kevin

4:24 PM  

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